Having hit the trails with wild abandon this last week, I have come
across a situation for which I need advice.

There are a lot of dogs with people on the trails. Most of the time,
the dog owners are quite responsible with their dogs, but I have
discovered that other owners have not yet acquired that skill. I
have been jumped upon, barked at furiously, and actually nipped.

My first thought was to carry dog biscuits with me to calm these non-
attended dogs (I also carry mace and a quite large auto-release
knife), but then my good letterboxing angel on my right shoulder
said "No, no, you will carry the scent of the dog biscuits to the
letterbox. Critters will follow the scent and ravage the box." Then
my evil letterboxing devil on my left shoullder chimed in "Just carry
a huge mahogany walking stick and whack the living crap out of them."

So, I plead with the letterboxing community - help! What is the best
remedy to this situation?

Looking forward to constructive advice (and not a flamewar),

Warrior Woman

Having dog biscuits probably makes you even more attractive to the
dogs.

When a dog jumps on you a good trick is to put a knee out towards
their chest as they jump up. It is quite effective in knocking them
back and is what some trainers teach you to do to teach your own dog
not to jump up on people. This assumes the dog is jumping to play
with/greet you. It may not be wise if the dog is acting particularly
agressive or vicious.

I find that ignoring the dog and just walking by without eye contact
usually works well, esp. if the dog is just barking at you and
nothing else.

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "warrioringilead"
wrote:
> Having hit the trails with wild abandon this last week, I have
come
> across a situation for which I need advice.
>
> There are a lot of dogs with people on the trails. Most of the
time,
> the dog owners are quite responsible with their dogs, but I have
> discovered that other owners have not yet acquired that skill. I
> have been jumped upon, barked at furiously, and actually nipped.
>
> My first thought was to carry dog biscuits with me to calm these
non-
> attended dogs (I also carry mace and a quite large auto-release
> knife), but then my good letterboxing angel on my right shoulder
> said "No, no, you will carry the scent of the dog biscuits to the
> letterbox. Critters will follow the scent and ravage the box."
Then
> my evil letterboxing devil on my left shoullder chimed in "Just
carry
> a huge mahogany walking stick and whack the living crap out of
them."
>
> So, I plead with the letterboxing community - help! What is the
best
> remedy to this situation?
>
> Looking forward to constructive advice (and not a flamewar),
>
> Warrior Woman

Learn about dogs and dog behaviour. It's unfortunate that it's necessary,
but as you've mentioned, some owners just don't get it. An excellent book
on the topic is "The Dog Listener: A Noted Expert Tells You How to
Communicate with Your Dog for Willing Cooperation " by Jan Fennell (ISBN:
0060199539).

I'd also carry along the pepper spray as a backup. :-) The staff might make
you feel better, but it's probably too long to be used as an effective
weapon, unless you've had some specific training in using it. I wouldn't
carry anything that would attract the dog (like dog biscuits or other dog
treats).


-HangGlider

----- Original Message -----
From: "warrioringilead"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:41 AM
Subject: [LbNA] Need advice regarding trail dogs


> Having hit the trails with wild abandon this last week, I have come
> across a situation for which I need advice.
>
> There are a lot of dogs with people on the trails. Most of the time,
> the dog owners are quite responsible with their dogs, but I have
> discovered that other owners have not yet acquired that skill. I
> have been jumped upon, barked at furiously, and actually nipped.
>
> My first thought was to carry dog biscuits with me to calm these non-
> attended dogs (I also carry mace and a quite large auto-release
> knife), but then my good letterboxing angel on my right shoulder
> said "No, no, you will carry the scent of the dog biscuits to the
> letterbox. Critters will follow the scent and ravage the box." Then
> my evil letterboxing devil on my left shoullder chimed in "Just carry
> a huge mahogany walking stick and whack the living crap out of them."
>
> So, I plead with the letterboxing community - help! What is the best
> remedy to this situation?
>
> Looking forward to constructive advice (and not a flamewar),
>
> Warrior Woman
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

As letterboxers who ALWAYS have a dog with us, we appreciate your
comments and concerns. Madras was attacked at Devils Hopyard 2 years
ago and I would up having to put a bootmark on the offending dog to
get him to let up.

When we were stamping into Resolution at Rocky Neck, we were sitting
on the ledge and 4 dogs (all off leash) along with 2 irresponsible
ladies came up the trail...the dogs seeing Maddie and immediately
coming at us at full gallup. I had to let out a very loud, deep, "Get
outta here" just to get them to break stride. Had heidi hold madras
while I shooed them away.

All in all, we keep Madras on leash except for rare circumstances.
Those would be letting her swim and hiking on a trail that we are
SURE no one else is on. Example would be Oriental Medicine in
Nehantic SF...where there's one entrance way off the road and it is
obvious that no one else is up there.

Boiling this slop down to a point... dogs on leash in areas where
other hikers frequent is a must. I know for a fact that my dog
won't bite and she's likely to lick you to death, but it's not about
my knowledge... its about a piece of mind for the hiker that we
encounter in the woods.

As far as dog treats, we've always got some in a pocket or a pack.
Have not had critter problems at boxes yet. I'd suggest a stern
shout at an approaching dog.... the knee to the chest works well if
they jump... and when in doubt "Walk softly and carry a big stick" as
they say.

-Steve, Heidi, and Madras

As a dog owner and trainer/behaviorist, I am always compelled to try and
educate those I come upon on trails with less than perfect manners. Of
course, I frequently have my dogs with me, so it is easier to start up dog
conversations with people than it would be for people without dogs in tow. I
have on many occasions read people the riot act so to speak because their
lack of responsibility directly impacts my ability to go places and do fun
things with my dogs. I explain that because of people not keeping dogs on
leash and cleaning up after their pets, many parks and other once dog
friendly places are changing their regulations to make pets not welcome.
Further, I explain that by having their dog off leash they are risking the
health and safety of their pet, as well as potentially causing a law suit
for themselves if the dog causes problems for other park visitors or wild
life. Of course some people roll their eyes and think you are some fruit,
but most really do appreciate you pointing out potential situations. LOL...
I have even given poop bags to people I caught letting their dogs defecate
without cleaning it up. The funny look on their face is worth the effort as
I say " Oh you must have forgotten your clean up bag, here I have an extra"
and hand it to them without even blinking.... as I point out the location of
the closest trash can.

Having said that, I have also taken mental descriptions of people and their
dogs and made more than my fair share of reports to rangers and other park
employees. I figure if my lecture didn't work, having a park person explain
that they need to get their dog on a leash or leave ASAP just might have the
desired effect. I also take the time to explain to the park person that I
myself have dogs and appreciate the ability to bring them into parks and
other areas and that because of that, I hate to see people abuse the
privilege by breaking the rules and becoming a nuisance. Usually they
respond very favorably and appreciate you taking the time to talk with them.

SO, to specifically deal with a dog issue on the trail, some tips:

1) If you a dog coming at you on the trail stop and avoid direct eye contact
with the dog. Usually you stopping gives the dog's owner some time to get
the dog under control, if they don't appear to be doing anything, or say "
Oh he/she loves people." Say " Would you please get your dog under control
on a leash. The park rules state your dog must be on a leash."

2) If the dog acts aggressive or barks, stay standing very still and try
talking to the dog with a friendly tone like "Hey buddy what are you up to"
or some other phrase. If you try yelling, shooing, or waving your arms, the
dog may take the act as threatening and decide to increase his/her
aggression toward you. Along the same line, NEVER WAVE A STICK OR TRY TO ACT
THREATENING. Some dogs may be intimidated , but then again it may very well
instigate a full out attack. ( In temperament testing one of the ways they
test a dog's protective nature is have a person come at the dog waving a
stick and acting threatening. This exact behavior can illicit an aggressive
attack in even the most docile acting dogs because it is a direct threat
upon them and causes their fight or flight mode to kick in.)

3) Once the person does have the dog under control mention in passing that
the dog should really be on a leash given the rules of the park and the
number of people out on the trail. If the dog acted aggressively toward you
tell the owner that the dog is exhibiting the potential for a really bad
situation and that if the dog injures someone or wildlife that the owner
could be sued for negligence, as well as fined for having the dog off a
leash. ( In passing you can also mention that you are an attorney...LOL)

4) If you pass park personnel mention to them that you had an altercation
with a dog running off leash and be prepared to give them a description of
the people and the dog.

5) If you are ever harmed by a loose dog be sure and report it IMMEDIATELY
and be sure to follow up with a bite report. ( In all bite situations the
dog's owner needs to provide proof that the dog is current on Rabies
vaccines and in some cases, the owner must have the dog under quarantine for
10 days.) Tell the owner directly that you were bitten or injured. People
with dogs that bite or cause problems need to be held accountable for their
actions and dogs with problems need to be identified. If you don't report
it, the next person the dog attacks might be more seriously injured, or
worse it might be someone's child.

6) If all else fails, use the mace to deter the dog. If the owner gets upset
remind them that the park rules state that dogs must be on a leash and under
control and that their dog was not. The key phrase is " I felt my life was
in danger because the dog was acting aggressively and was running out of
control off leash." I can recount several situations where dogs have been
shot by park personnel for exactly that reason.

Hope this helps!

All the best,

Puppylover
Michigan

----- Original Message -----
From: "warrioringilead"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 12:41 PM
Subject: [LbNA] Need advice regarding trail dogs


> Having hit the trails with wild abandon this last week, I have come
> across a situation for which I need advice.
>
> There are a lot of dogs with people on the trails. Most of the time,
> the dog owners are quite responsible with their dogs, but I have
> discovered that other owners have not yet acquired that skill. I
> have been jumped upon, barked at furiously, and actually nipped.
>
> My first thought was to carry dog biscuits with me to calm these non-
> attended dogs (I also carry mace and a quite large auto-release
> knife), but then my good letterboxing angel on my right shoulder
> said "No, no, you will carry the scent of the dog biscuits to the
> letterbox. Critters will follow the scent and ravage the box." Then
> my evil letterboxing devil on my left shoullder chimed in "Just carry
> a huge mahogany walking stick and whack the living crap out of them."
>
> So, I plead with the letterboxing community - help! What is the best
> remedy to this situation?
>
> Looking forward to constructive advice (and not a flamewar),
>
> Warrior Woman
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

This is one of my HUGEST pet peeves as a former dog trainer and an owner of a
dog that is aggressive toward other dogs. I cannot stand when dog owners
don't curb their dogs.

In my opinion as a trainer, you should not allow your dog to go near anyone
unless they ask you if they may pet your dog and you agree that it is okay.
Some people are frightened of dogs (there's nothing quite like sending a
dog-phobic person into a tearful hysteria!) and others are allergic or simply don't
like animals. Don't assume the world is eager to meet your four-legged friend.
Don't impose your dog on your fellow hikers.

I always step to the side and give others the right of way when we have Nina
with us, and I always call her to a 'heel' position when there are on-coming
people on a trail or path.

I can't tell you how many times I've shouted at people at a distance to leash
their loose dog as their dog begins to gallop toward my dog. So often the
response is, "Oh, he's friendly!" to which I am forced to respond,"Yes, but MY
dog will EAT your dog!" Then THEY look all horrified like they never imagined
that there would actually be someone or some dog that wouldn't want to meet
their dog in all its jumping, slobbering glory. Then they are surprised when my
leashed (trapped) dog growls and snaps at their loose dog as it jumps all over
the place. Sometimes I have had to hold off their dog and control my dog
simultaneously until they bother to pull their dog off. It just frosts me!

So here's my opinion. A sharp knee to the chest and a loud "NO!" or "OFF!" is
quite appropriate and will not hurt the dog (don't be gentle - you want to
knock the steam out of him/her and you want to make it clear that it would not
be fun to jump on you again).

I would not carry treats with you as you may find yourself being overwhelmed
by a dog that is ill-mannered. I have seen untrained dogs practically go into
people's mouths looking to take food from them.

I used to think that carrying pepper spray would be a good solution, but
having the recent experience with Nina being chewed up by that german shepard, I
realized that in the heat of the moment I would be hard pressed to spray a
dog... realistically. It would be really hard to do it and not hit a person in the
process, and it would break my heart to spray them.

If a dog nips you, you should shout quite loudly, "OW! HE BIT ME!" That
should get owners to sit up and take notice. It is unfortunate that the only thing
that some people respond to is the reminder that they are legally liable for
any damage their dog causes. In every class I would teach, the first thing I
would remind people of is that they are responsible for their dog's actions. In
this day and age of litigious craziness, your dog doesn't have to bite or
physically hurt someone to cause a lawsuit. All your dog has to do is be present
and frighten someone and they could be calling you into a courtroom.

Your first thought should be of your own comfort and safety. Don't be afraid
of reminding people of leash laws or of informing them of your particular
needs. They may roll their eyes and be obnoxious about it, but they also may truly
have never thought of what COULD happen. You'd be surprised.

(sorry to rant, but it's a particularly sore spot for me...and poor Nina -
Her fur has not grown completely back yet.)

Happy boxing!
-Kim (Rustypuff)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't think that carrying dog biscuits in a zip-lock baggie will carry the scent to the boxes. However, once you give a wandering dog a biscuit, you will have a hard time getting rid of it. A walking stick is a good idea, not to "whack the living crap out of them", but to use as more of a prod or lever between you and the dog. I give plenty of people dirty looks when their dog runs up to me waaay before they get close, but it seems that some people never learn, or they have the "rules are for other people" mentality. Dogs should be kept on leashes unless they are trained to heel at all times. You never know when you will run into someone with an intense dislike or fear of dogs, not to mention what dangerous things your dog could run into. Better safe then sorry!

Debean (animal lover!!!!) MD

warrioringilead wrote:
Having hit the trails with wild abandon this last week, I have come
across a situation for which I need advice.

There are a lot of dogs with people on the trails. Most of the time,
the dog owners are quite responsible with their dogs, but I have
discovered that other owners have not yet acquired that skill. I
have been jumped upon, barked at furiously, and actually nipped.

My first thought was to carry dog biscuits with me to calm these non-
attended dogs (I also carry mace and a quite large auto-release
knife), but then my good letterboxing angel on my right shoulder
said "No, no, you will carry the scent of the dog biscuits to the
letterbox. Critters will follow the scent and ravage the box." Then
my evil letterboxing devil on my left shoullder chimed in "Just carry
a huge mahogany walking stick and whack the living crap out of them."

So, I plead with the letterboxing community - help! What is the best
remedy to this situation?

Looking forward to constructive advice (and not a flamewar),

Warrior Woman


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I too, have been in your situation, but the situation differs when you have
your own dogs as the focus of the interests of someone's out of control dog.
If you are an individual without dogs and the dog is acting aggressively
toward you, the last thing you want to do is act aggressive. It can and does
cause the intensity of the situation to heighten and can cause you to get
severely bitten. ( I actually witnessed this when I was ski-jouring with my
Rottweiler one winter. My dog was in harness 5 feet in front of me and
attached to my waist when I came upon a man cross country skiing toward me
on the same trail. The man's immediate response was to raise a ski pole and
act aggressive toward my dog and she started to go for him to protect
herself and me. I yelled at him to stand still and talk to her and she
immediately stopped reacting when he calmed down. Once he acted normal she
started wiggling her whole body and approached him for petting. After the
incident I explained why she reacted to his actions and how he should
approach a strange dog given the same situation and he agreed)

In my own case with my dogs ( I have 5), the best solution is to remain calm
and have you own dog(s) on a loose leash. If you tighten their leash and try
to restrain them, often times the dog tenses up and tends to strain forward
putting up his/her defenses. That combined with having a strange dog
charging up at them, can cause an immediate altercation where, often times,
when everyone is relaxed about it, the dogs sort of sniff each other and
diffuse the situation themselves. The key is to remain calm, so the dogs
remain calm.

If the above doesn't work, or if you are like myself and have a dog that
doesn't like other dogs rushing up, then I try to still keep a loose leash
and tell the dog to get back, hopefully awakening the mind of the other
dog's owner. I will also try and place myself between my dog an the out of
control dog to try and keep some separation between dogs. ( If you dog is
small enough you can also pick the dog up to maintain distance) If things do
resort to an all out dog fight then at that point you do whatever you have
do to break things up. DO NOT attempt to put your hands on any dogs, but
rather try to get a big stick and start knocking heads. Of course, when your
own dog is on leash it helps keep some control of the situation as you have
somewhat of a handle on one of the parties. At that point if I had pepper
spray, I would use it!

Of course, once the incident is over and hopefully all is well, I take the
opportunity to mention the potential situation that could have occurred and
the bodily harm that could have come to the off leash dog. It is pretty easy
to point out that my 5 could have quite literally killed the other dog
because of pack mentality and that there are reasons why parks require dogs
be on leash. I also mention that one of my dogs is aggressive toward other
dogs running at her and that I really don't appreciate the other person's
carelessness. If there was a dog fight then I say similar things, but with
more intensity and probably poorer language. Also, I ask for the person's
address and phone number because of their legal responsibilities since their
dog was breaking the rules by being off leash. I don't say that when asking
for the information, but rather I say I would like to exchange Rabies
vaccination information in case of a problem. I also take a description of
the people, dog, etc., and explain the incident to the park officials, being
sure to mention that the other dog was off leash. It never hurts to protect
yourself.

All the best,

Puppylover
Michigan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve and Heidi"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Need advice regarding trail dogs


> As letterboxers who ALWAYS have a dog with us, we appreciate your
> comments and concerns. Madras was attacked at Devils Hopyard 2 years
> ago and I would up having to put a bootmark on the offending dog to
> get him to let up.
>
> When we were stamping into Resolution at Rocky Neck, we were sitting
> on the ledge and 4 dogs (all off leash) along with 2 irresponsible
> ladies came up the trail...the dogs seeing Maddie and immediately
> coming at us at full gallup. I had to let out a very loud, deep, "Get
> outta here" just to get them to break stride. Had heidi hold madras
> while I shooed them away.
>
> All in all, we keep Madras on leash except for rare circumstances.
> Those would be letting her swim and hiking on a trail that we are
> SURE no one else is on. Example would be Oriental Medicine in
> Nehantic SF...where there's one entrance way off the road and it is
> obvious that no one else is up there.
>
> Boiling this slop down to a point... dogs on leash in areas where
> other hikers frequent is a must. I know for a fact that my dog
> won't bite and she's likely to lick you to death, but it's not about
> my knowledge... its about a piece of mind for the hiker that we
> encounter in the woods.
>
> As far as dog treats, we've always got some in a pocket or a pack.
> Have not had critter problems at boxes yet. I'd suggest a stern
> shout at an approaching dog.... the knee to the chest works well if
> they jump... and when in doubt "Walk softly and carry a big stick" as
> they say.
>
> -Steve, Heidi, and Madras
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "warrioringilead"
wrote:

> There are a lot of dogs with people on the trails. Most of the time,
> the dog owners are quite responsible with their dogs, but I have
> discovered that other owners have not yet acquired that skill. I
> have been jumped upon, barked at furiously, and actually nipped.


This is a huge pet peeve of mine! I usually box with our coonhound,
Bonnie, and she is ALWAYS on leash. But FYI, if you come to box in
Richmond, VA, I have never in my life seen an entire community refuse
to leash its dogs when its humans visit parks! Every single time
Bonnie and I go to a Richmond-area park to box or to walk around, we
are accosted by unleashed dogs. Because we live in Richmond, it's a
big concern.

I have started carrying a walking stick and citronella spray for this
reason. The citronella spray is effective on almost all animals, even
snakes, but can't harm humans if the wind sprays some back in your
face after you've sprayed it.

The human companions of these unleashed dogs are the real problems
here. I haven't reported anyone yet, nor have I reminded these people
that the park's signs say that all dogs have to be leashed. I'm not
interested in any drama, I guess. But I have on a couple of occasions
shouted at the humans who were not close to their dogs at all when
their dogs came galloping up to us to come get their dogs. Rarely do
they put their dogs on leashes at this point; they usually just grab
the dog by the collar and drag it farther down the trail from us, then
let it go.

The only time I have gotten really irate occurred at Dorey Park, where
some of the Clue series boxes are hidden. A group of young men were
discgolfing, and they were approaching us on the trail. Suddenly a
young male Rottie came out of nowhere and ran up to Bonnie and
literally shoved its snout under her stomach to smell her. I put my
stick in between the two and sorta pushed against him, but he didn't
back off much. He was just smelling away. Bonnie was standing very
still. Just then one of the young men left his group and came over,
calling the dog by name and telling it to come to him, but of course
it didn't respond. So I told the boy in no-uncertain terms to get his
dog off my dog immediately and that didn't he realize there were leash
laws in this park? He had to pull the dog away with by its collar, and
he basically ignored me. As usual, he let the Rottie go once he was
about 10 yards away. This schmuck I would have gladly reported but
most Richmond parks don't have staff on site.

-- mlg

Dear Warrior Woman,
Well - I can give you my advice. (I do national animal welfare for a
living, if that makes a difference)

At National Parks, dogs are REQUIRED to be on a 6' leash or shorter.
National Forests also have rules regarding pets - though these can be
interpreted a bit more loosely - check with the ranger.

Your State Parks and Open Spaces may have different rules, you can
check with your Park Ranger and you should report folks on the trails
that are in violation. I can't remember what state you were in, so
taking a wild stab, I checked CT. CT State Parks and Forests require
dogs to be on a leash, too. (if you're not in CT, email me and I'll
check the regs for you for other states)

As for carrying mace, etc. Your suggestion of carrying a big stick
was right on the money. No ... I'm not suggesting that you "whack
the living crap out of them" - but you CAN use the stick to keep the
dog at bay - and to put some distance between you and the dog.

This can often buy you enough time to alert the dog's owner who
should be in control of the animal to begin with.

Don't get me wrong, I love to see dogs on trails, but only off-leash
if its allowed, and if the dog is NOT aggressive. Many, many folks
think their dog is not a problem until it is too late and their
animal has bitten someone. I get LOTS of calls every day like that.
Always better to be safe, for both the dog and the other hikers out
there.

Best,
Autumn

Warrior Woman wrote:

There are a lot of dogs with people on the trails. Most of the time,
the dog owners are quite responsible with their dogs, but I have
discovered that other owners have not yet acquired that skill. I
have been jumped upon, barked at furiously, and actually nipped.

Thanks, Autumn.

I have held off on jumping into this discussion, but it's an important one. See, I have two small toy poodles. One (a cream colored 5 year old) weighs in at just under 5 pounds, the other (her mother, a black 10 1/2 year old) at almost 8 pounds. They are incredibly well-behaved dogs, a mother and daughter who have never been apart for more than a few hours. Molly (the mother) is rather protective of Annie, and though neither has any hesitation about running up to anyone and rolling over for a bellyrub, if Molly suspects that anything bad is happening to Annie, she will get defensive. Any attempt to pat her while she is in this mode will result in a nip. Not a hard bite, but a nip that usually will break a cuticle.

Also, neither dog has any problem with bigger dogs (which are often scared of them!), and unfortunately, like most small dogs, they do not seem to realize their own size. If a large dog comes up to them, they will hold their ground just as stubbornly as a trained German shepherd. Thankfully they are small enough that I am always able to sweep them both up in my arms if another dog approches, but I am then left with no free hand with which to hold back the approaching dog from jumping up on me in an attempt to investigate my dogs.

I always have both of them on a leash (unless they are being carried!), but as I just said, there is nothing I can do about other dogs.

Basically, this whole subject is somewhat "preaching to the choir", since we are all good about controlling our own dogs, but I thought that I'd put in my two cents.

-Jena
blue dragonfly
P0 F3 (V3) X0
----- Original Message -----
From: Autumn
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 6:45 PM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Need advice regarding trail dogs


Dear Warrior Woman,
Well - I can give you my advice. (I do national animal welfare for a
living, if that makes a difference)

At National Parks, dogs are REQUIRED to be on a 6' leash or shorter.
National Forests also have rules regarding pets - though these can be
interpreted a bit more loosely - check with the ranger.

Your State Parks and Open Spaces may have different rules, you can
check with your Park Ranger and you should report folks on the trails
that are in violation. I can't remember what state you were in, so
taking a wild stab, I checked CT. CT State Parks and Forests require
dogs to be on a leash, too. (if you're not in CT, email me and I'll
check the regs for you for other states)

As for carrying mace, etc. Your suggestion of carrying a big stick
was right on the money. No ... I'm not suggesting that you "whack
the living crap out of them" - but you CAN use the stick to keep the
dog at bay - and to put some distance between you and the dog.

This can often buy you enough time to alert the dog's owner who
should be in control of the animal to begin with.

Don't get me wrong, I love to see dogs on trails, but only off-leash
if its allowed, and if the dog is NOT aggressive. Many, many folks
think their dog is not a problem until it is too late and their
animal has bitten someone. I get LOTS of calls every day like that.
Always better to be safe, for both the dog and the other hikers out
there.

Best,
Autumn

Warrior Woman wrote:

There are a lot of dogs with people on the trails. Most of the time,
the dog owners are quite responsible with their dogs, but I have
discovered that other owners have not yet acquired that skill. I
have been jumped upon, barked at furiously, and actually nipped.


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I think everyone covered this topic well. I'm behind in reading my mail, but thought I'd pass along my tips. I teach Bite Prevention to kids and will soon be teaching groups of adults that go into homes (social workers, home care nurses, etc.).

Never run or make quick moves! Keep in mind that threatening a dog is likely to get you bitten. Even friendly dogs will feel the need to defend themselves from a threat.

#1. If approached by a loose dog... STOP and stand still with your side to the dog (less threatening than a full front presentation).
#2 Don't make eye contact. Direct eye contact is a threat to a dog. They learn from humans that we like to look them in the eye and that it's OK, but if a dog is frightened, they will revert to what comes naturally over what they have been taught. A dog might look aggressive, but many aggressive displays are fear based.
#3 Talk quietly in a normal tone of voice to the dog (unless you think your voice will be shaky). Dogs don't understand most of our words, but they do learn to recognize our tone of voice as friendly or threatening. Try to keep your tone neutral or friendly toward the owner (at least until they get the dog under control :-)
#4 Keep your hands in your pockets or at your side. If you hold your hands up away from the dog, they may jump up on you to see what you are 'hiding' in your hands. An option that I give kids is to cover their faces with their open hands. This keeps the dog from licking their face (or nipping it) and keeps the big bones of their forearms in front of their necks. If you have a bag or backpack, you can hold it between you and the dog as you back away slowly.
#5 If the dog jumps on you in a friendly way, raising your knee will keep his claws away from your body, but you don't need to raise your knee violently with intent to hit the dog. If you hurt the dog with your knee, they might bite. You can also try turning away from the dog, but there is a possibility that the dog will put it's paws up on your back and leave claw marks if they are really boisterous.
#6 If a dog is rushing at you and you feel it's menacing... turn your side to the dog, look down (not at the dog) and in your deepest, loudest "I'm gonna kill you if you don't stop" voice yell "NO!" when the dog is about 5 feet away. This advice is from a professional 'decoy' (the person that wears the bite suit for attack trained dogs). This is not recommended for children because their voices tend to sound too high pitched to be effective.

There is additional advice I could give to children, and to people who would be entering a dog's territory. I think previous posts covered the situation involving two (or more) dogs meeting fairly well.

Most dogs just want to come "say hi" and will do no harm if you are not a threat to them. Once they sniff you, they are content to leave you alone. If no owner is around, either stand still till the dog gets bored of you and leaves, or if the dog won't leave, back away slowly while avoiding eye contact.
I am not saying that it's OK for people to let their dogs run loose! There are so many reasons why it's dangerous and not the educated thing to do. I agree with what Shiela said about educating the dog's owner about the legal ramifications of their choice to disregard the rules. Even if a park does not have rules posted, most cities have leash laws on the books that would apply.

Stay safe,
Scoutdogs

Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:40:33 -0000
From: "warrioringilead"
Subject: Need advice regarding trail dogs

Having hit the trails with wild abandon this last week, I have come
across a situation for which I need advice.

There are a lot of dogs with people on the trails. Most of the time,
the dog owners are quite responsible with their dogs, but I have
discovered that other owners have not yet acquired that skill. I
have been jumped upon, barked at furiously, and actually nipped.

My first thought was to carry dog biscuits with me to calm these non-
attended dogs (I also carry mace and a quite large auto-release
knife), but then my good letterboxing angel on my right shoulder
said "No, no, you will carry the scent of the dog biscuits to the
letterbox. Critters will follow the scent and ravage the box." Then
my evil letterboxing devil on my left shoullder chimed in "Just carry
a huge mahogany walking stick and whack the living crap out of them."

So, I plead with the letterboxing community - help! What is the best
remedy to this situation?

Looking forward to constructive advice (and not a flamewar),

Warrior Woman

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